March 23, 2023

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Jeffrey Kamys joined the Knup Sports Show to talk about his iBET Sports Betting & Gaming ETF. We also touch base on a number of other iGaming topics.

Hey, what’s going on everybody? Ryan Knuppel here, Knup Sports Show Episode 180, super excited that we have another special guest that we’re gonna bring to you shortly, but first off, let’s talk a little football. Man, opening weekend was a disaster for my survivor league, I’ll tell you that. It was a disaster for my survivors, I think every contest I was in I like split up and picked different survivors and I’m pretty sure they all lost. From the Bengals to the Titans, to the, who else knows, I think last night’s game I lost that as well. Just all over the place, uh, survivor was a disaster. But anyway, football’s here, I’m excited for it for the rest of the season. Thank you so much for tuning in, really appreciate you giving us some time here. We’ve had a good time over the last few weeks, having lots of great guests, um, so go back, listen to some of those as well, but today I’m honored to have Jeffrey Kamys of the Inherent Wealth Fund with me. Jeffrey, how are you, my friend?
How you doing? Actually, you know, you shoulda called me because last night I sandwiched in two wins. I had the Buffalo one, and I had last night, because I had to be with the smart money, which was to bet against, because 81% was on, 81% of the money went toward Denver, so I’m thinking, how could they not take this down, and I’m just thinking, so I go with the 19% and that was my one win. During the week though, really tough week, a lot of teams, I think because of the lack of preseason, and this goes back to my analytics days when I had my fantasy sports, but the lack of the preseason really makes these teams play flat sometimes. You know, Green Bay lost just like they did last week, so, you know, like last year.
Yeah, yeah. Everybody’s trying to get their feet under and try to figure out who’s what, new coaching staff, new everything going on across the board, so always tough, but usually, you know, going back to kind of survivor, right, that whole ordeal.
Yeah. [Laughs]. Love that.
What’s funny is, like, usually there’s this one, like, sure thing, like a 15-point favorite that is gonna win. This week, it was like, -6, -7, -6, -7, and so, all of those teams either lost or tied, which was kind of funny.
You know, I was looking to go under survivor and I was looking for that team this first week too, about a week ago, and I thought, wow this is a tough week, you know? And not a lot of information, there’s some things you could maybe bet, but I didn’t think there was anything a [inaudible] play this week.
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, we’re not here to talk all football, Jeff, I want to hear a little bit about you and what you’ve got going on with Inherent Wealth Fun, but first, tell me about yourself and, uh, maybe your career path leading up to where you are today.
Yeah, well, you know, so I was always into sports my whole life, so we are gonna get back to sports at some point, but, you know, I started, I used to be a baseball player, really loved it, I hurt my shoulder, couldn’t really play. Uh, in the early 90s I was really into fantasy sports and I used to play in this league that Stats Inc had, and I thought, you know, it would be great to, it was really the first one, you literally would get your paper schedules in the mail and you’d have to really do your own research to dig and find guys. It was kind of a fun time, you know, it was Wild West of fantasy sports, and then mid 90s I thought, you know, I’ll, maybe I can start a little business here for fun. It was a second job, you know, I was working a regular job, and I started building a business, I started, uh, I had like 2 leagues, I got like 30 people to believe in me the first year, but you know, it was a start. And then I started an information business that really came on to be what I called Dr. Stats Fantasy Sports, which was one of the original, kind of, media companies for fantasy sports in like ’94, I think I started, 93′, 94′, 95′, and one of the coolest things we had, you know, now you look at it, but like, we were the first to have, like, dashboards. Like, no one had that at that time.
But we had, I had some technology people, I was always in technology, and we were able to create, like, these Informix databases. This was way before you could go in a database and actually look at it, you know, you’d have to have cell code to just right a cell. I mean, it took a long time, and like, the original [inaudible] database, it was really cool to be involved in that. I did it for, like, 17 years and loved it and always was involved in writing. That job, it was a lot of time, you know, it was writing, like 500 player evaluations every week for football, you know, cause guys wanted them in. It just was, it just got to be brutal. Like I loved it, but it was so much work, and they knew if it was my writing or someone else’s, cause I, my analytics were what built the site, and so guys, it just became a big drain, but I loved it.
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s quite the path, and so, what led you completely to do Inherent Wealth Fund? I mean, that’s where you’re at today, Inherent Wealth Fund, and we’ll talk more about what that is here in a bit, and what all you got going on, but why that?
Well so I started a little advisory, uh, pre-COVID, right? And I had, you know, we ended up having about 120 clients, it’s called Baseline Investments. And I represent, you know, individual wealth, uh, you know, individual wealth manager for individual clients, retirees, people with 401ks, roll-overs, that kind of thing. And during COVID, I just, you know, I was noticing, you know, the growth in sports betting, I thought, you know, this is natural for me, my background, I know the clientele, I know the people that are involved, I wager myself. And I thought, you know, it’d be really cool to maybe start, like, a fund, and I started investigating the process of starting a fund, and I went and found US Bank, kinda went through the process, tried to figure out what kinda budget I’d need, how to start it, how to market or distribute it, and then I, you know, created the iBet Sports Betting & Gaming ETF, which is, kind of a passion play for me. It’s not, to me, I love learning about these companies, I love going to Vegas, I love, you know, talking to whoever will talk to me in the industry, you know, including yourself, and I watch your podcast because I learn something about it and I’m trying to find out about this ecosystem, which is growing everyday. It’s kind of a really cool thing to be involved in. Lots of news, lots of mergers, lots of, uh, new companies coming out to fill needs in the space.
Yeah, this is such a unique, you’re such a unique guest for this show, to be honest with you Jeffrey, because a lot of times we’re talking to, you know, sports data and actual true sports companies, whereas you’re really in more the financial space. I want you to explain to maybe our uneducated listeners, a little bit more about what an ETF is, right? Maybe what an ETF is, what this concept of iBet Sports Betting & Gaming, this fund, is, and just high-level, tell us a little bit more about what that means.
Right, so an ETF really is a basket of stocks that kind of represents a sector or specific niche in an industry. In this case, my ETF, which is iBet, it represents the sports betting and gaming industry. And so, we hold, you know, 40-45 positions of companies that we feel are doing well or will continue to do well and grow, and the investor gets the return off, you know, what happens. And, you know, this is a growing industry, you know, we’re at 15-20 cager probably over the next 5-7 years. There’s a lot of growth coming here. We have California potentially coming on, we still have big dogs like Texas and Florida that will come on eventually. We’ll probably be at all 48 or 49 states, I don’t think Utah will ever come. But the whole point is that this is a growing industry, very new, especially in the US. We do have some global exposure. It’s been going a lot longer in Europe. You know, we do have some exposure to those companies, but in the US, this is a booming, kinda growing thing. And these companies are, um, I think what an ETF does is it really creates the versification for an investor rather than, you know, we’re gonna have winner and we’re gonna have some losers in this space. We all know that, that’s what happens in any industry. And so, an ETF gets you exposure to the growth of the space without getting the downside exposure of just being invested in one company.
Right. That was what I was gonna say really stood out to me, right? You know you believe in this space, you know you wanna invest in it, but what do you do? Do you put all your eggs in DraftKings’ basket, or do you diversify across this portfolio of stocks that are really focused on this industry that you believe in, and that’s what you’re saying the ETF, iBet is kinda there for. That type of person that’s really looking to diversify, and, I mean honestly, maybe isn’t wanting to put in that time and effort to really understand exactly what’s going on with all these stocks, they just know they believe in the industry and they wanna be a part of it.
Yeah, and I would say, and you know, cause I know you comment on the space all the time, there are so many new, kind of, companies coming in this space, you know. I just talked to you about, you know, a show you had on affiliate marketing, well that’s a big part of this process. I saw an ecosystem, kind of, graph, if you will, the other day on LinkedIn. It was really fantastic. It had like 500 companies, you know, they’re not all publicly traded, but it’s incredible how many people are in this place. So if you think of anything in technology, we have the exact same ecosystem with the different parts that are needed is in this sports betting and gaming world. And it’s growing. Because, like I say, the investment opportunity is Ground Zero, meaning there’s so much growth ahead. This is like investing in technology in like the late 80s and 90s, before like, companies like Apple and Microsoft were really gonna start booming. And so that’s where I see this space. It’s really that analogy of investing, it’s really, like Ground Zero for sports betting and gaming.
Now the ideal person to use something like this, is it an individual that you’re targeting, or is it more, I mean, can businesses invest in this? What typically is gonna invest in your fund?
Very much, so, I think a lot of people who like retail, who are retail investors, or just the average investor, invests in this. But we also have institutional investors of course, because institutional investors really are just representing retail consumers or retail investors. So, you know, we have, we have all different groups of people and I think, you know, as, like, the market’s tough right now, so people are looking for different things, but really what this is about, what we’re doing, and I know you do a good job of it because you’re doing these podcasts, I do my own, is explaining what this opportunity is. Explaining what’s going on here. Explaining why it’s a big deal. Explaining why it’s gonn abe growing, you know. And I think that’s, you know, what we’re trying to explain the opportunity. That’s really what it’s about to me.
Yeah, I mean, typically, my next question, or kinda leading you in, would be like, “I wanna hear your outlook on the industry. Do you think it’s blah blah blah”. But obviously you have a positive outlook on the industry. Now, that said, I do want to talk about maybe a couple key, or two or three key states and kind of maybe their status, right? We have, what I would consider three massive states that still need to become legal for this to really, really boom. We got Florida, we got Texas, and we got California. Uh, I know California’s had some noise lately, a lot of talk going on, I know you mentioned the post that I made the other day that kinda sparked some conversation. But what’s your outlook on, let’s say California for instance. What’s your outlook on California currently?
Well, they’ve done a really good job of confusing the person, the individual voter, of what they should be voting for. Because there’s 26 and 27. 26 is more beneficial to the Indian reservations, and 27 is more beneficial to the outside players. Um, what I would say is, from being on the ground of California, have lived in California for 18+ years, I know that consumers want it. I know that all those studies that consumers show, show that 44, 45%, the last one I saw, the last polling data I saw, was that consumers were for it. A lot of people I guarantee are confused by this ballot because the Indian gaming casinos are sacking a lot of money, I think this is like one of the most, for a ballot initiative, it’s the most money that’s ever been spent. It’s in the 300-400 millions of dollars that they’ve spent. You’re seeing commercial after commercial. I saw an analogy, I know the LA Times wrote a piece, and honestly, I don’t wanna get into like, conspiratorial, but like, there’s people, people have motivations, you know, people get money from different people, and it motivates them. Indian reservations, you know, have brought in a lot of money these papers advertising, things like that. I don’t necessarily believe that’s an unbiased opinion. I believe it’s probably a little bit biased. And I think that there’s some of that going on here. I think that more consumers need to be, understand this issue so that they get behind it and that they tell their local delegates that this is important to them. And I think that, really when you look at it from a consumer perspective, there was an analogy about, um, marijuana. But what California did to people who are providing marijuana is they made it really expensive because they’ve taxed it so heavily. You know, people, you can’t be, they’re also unbanked. It’s made it so expensive because you can’t bank with a national, like, bank, because it may conflict with legality in some other state. Well, gambling’s not like that. They said “Oh, it’s gonna be like gambling, uh, marijuana, where you still have a lot of legal”. No, there’s no, it doesn’t change. It’s a better opportunity for the consumer because the bet is still the bet. It’s not like betting is gonna go up, it’s not like your [inaudible] is gonna go to 25% now, it’s not, that’s not what’s gonna happen. You’re gonna pay the same, the company bringing it online may pay a tax, of course, but they can’t pass that onto you in sports betting and gaming. Really, California, really put a lot of taxes on that marijuana industry and that’s what’s been hard for them to deal with.
Well, I appreciate that insight. If you were a betting man, when would you say California legalizes?
I think there’s still gonna be an interesting push. I think that there’s, I think what we’re getting is a lot of heavy weight. I think there’s still a chance that this passes this year. But I do think that there’s a lot of, if you will, propaganda pushing them the other way that says it’s not gonna happen. But I do think that people want it, I do think they’ve done a really good job confusing people on what 26 and 27 are, I’ll tell you that. Because the 26 would say, “Hey, let’s pass 26, but you can go in and gamble at an Indian place at the Indian reservation where it’s safer”, and I’ve actually been to, I have 2 young kids, but they’re 23 and 21. But they go into those reservations, they say it’s safer. My kids don’t get carded in those. We’ve been to like 10 of them. So I’m just saying, it’s not safer, you know? It’s an interesting issue, I don’t know how you feel about it.
Yeah, very interesting, and you know, I feel like I’m on the other end of the United States, right? I’m in Florida, and we kinda went through, what, we went through 2 weeks of legalization, which was odd, and then…
[Laughs]. And then they pulled it back.
They were like, “Reverse, reverse! Back up!”, and I’m like, “What? I’m already betting, how is it not legal now?”. It was so odd that that happened in Florida, but I do feel like a lot of it is political, right? A lot of it is, just, as you mentioned, it feels like the people, it feels like, again, I don’t really have all the data and numbers to show it, but it feels like the people want it. It feels like the people are kinda like, “I don’t know what’s going on” and then it’s all this stuff going on between the tribes and the government and all this, that it’s kinda like red tape, right? To make it happen. And so, frustrating from a consumer side, uh, to see that happen. I just hope Florida figures it out at some point.
Well just think about myself. Like, I do have somebody that I could make a wager with. But I’d rather be betting online. So I can look at all different odds, and I can have all different kinds of plays I could make. It makes it easier for me, it’s better, it’s better for the consumer. There’s nothing that says, I think the stats show that bettors bet the same. Having access isn’t going to change the way you bet. You know, bettors bet the same. They’ve learned over a period of time if they’re a $5 bettor, or a $50 bettor, or a $100 bettor, or more. Bettors will bet the same.
And what’s interesting, you know, the debate comes up all the time, not the debate, the discussion all the time comes up of, like, “Ah, you know, the legalization of United States sports betting is hurting or gonna hurt the offshores, is gonna hurt the other people taking bets”, and actually I’d argue the exact opposite at this point, because, honestly I think there’s probably more people in Florida and California that are using offshores right now, because there’s so much attention on sports betting, we see it, I see it all over the place, every TikTok, every Instagram, every Twitter that I look at is talking about betting on sports, but then I’m like, wait I can’t do it, so, welp, go to MyBookie or go to BookMaker, so they’re probably seeing an increase in some of these massive states, which then if you look at that from a state side, like, come on. Like, they need to just legalize it and make it happen.
Well I don’t know why California, which is…and think about the bill really. I mean, living in California during COVID, there were shanty towns under, like, these bridges and byducts all over the place, and California, if any state, needs more help for mental health. It’s California. Because we take everybody, we have every type of person in California, and I love being here, but it needs the revenue. And the idea that it’s gonna be so dominant in that one place, in those reservations, and I can tell you, having gone to different, like Indian reservation towns, there are some where they get a lot of the benefits. You know, the ancestry gets a certain kind of a monthly payment. But that’s the minority. That is not the majority that people that are Indians that are living, or Native Americans, that are living in California. So I think, I mean, I really think that it doesn’t really make sense, but I do think that there’s a lot of political things that are going on, and again, these commercials are very confusing.
They are, they are. Well I think we could talk about this all day long, I really think we could actually probably revisit this about every month and talk about a different situation in a different state.
I would love to.
A little show idea there, but, let’s get back to iBet, and let’s get back to ETF real quick. I’m curious what the future looks like for it. One, I’m curious what the future looks like, and two, I’m curious your process as new companies, you know, launch, as new stocks become available, what’s the auditing process for you guys look like to understand if it becomes part of your fund or not.
Well a lot of this, what’s kind of fun about this, and again, we’re active, there are some people in this space that are in this industry, and doing kinda the similar thing but they’re not active, they’re in index, which means that they shift, or they change their positions at periods of time, like quarterly maybe. And they may change the weightings based on quarterly. We make changes when we see news. And there are really interesting stories in this space everyday, as you all know. And so we’re looking for mergers, we’re looking for different activity, I just think, you know, there was a great news story about DraftKings, um handling Amazon, uh, working with Amazon on Thursday Night Football. And I think that’s a really, really big story. And I’ll tell you why: because whoever wins Sunday ticket is gonna have gaming of some sort. I don’t know how they’re gonna do it, but I’ve been talking about this for a year and a half. But if it’s Apple or if it’s Amazon, or of it’s Google or somebody, those are probably the only people that can afford it, really. But whoever wins NFL Sunday ticket, which I’ve had for 20 years, whenever it started I’ve had it since, whoever wins that is gonna have some kind of gaming. They have to. It doesn’t make any sense to not to do it. And so if it’s DraftKings, if they get the entry position, if Amazon gets it, that’s good for DraftKings, so that’s the kinda thing that we do. So we dashboard everything, I have a list of about 100+ companies that I dashboard that are all globally traded and US traded, and we just watch the news on the daily basis and I look for trends and transitions. We do some technical reads on, you know, companies that are moving in different directions. You know, the space, to me, is misunderstood. If you, if you watch something like CNBC, Cramer, he knows a lot about a lot of different things. But, you know, in this space, he’s still talking about what we talked about a year and a half ago, which was customer acquisition. You know, does it cost $1000 to get a customer for MGM? Well, it is expensive, they’re giving a lot of rewards. People don’t really understand what those rewards are. They really don’t, if you read the financial statements, you can’t even see where the CAC is, or where the customer acquisition cost is. So it’s harder, really, to tell what it is. I think we’re in a period of a heavy investment. And, you know, people are going for people, but what they’re doing now, I love, you see a new strategic partnership everyday with a pro franchise. That’s the new model. There was one today, I’m trying to think of the team, there was one brand new one announced today, New England Patriots, um, I can’t remember the company that they did a partnership with, but every single day, you can be sure, there’s 17 different pro franchises in California, you can be sure that they have deals in place to sign the day, if it became legalized in California, every single franchise. Because that’s the new model. The new model is, “Hey, we’ll acquire you but you’re gonna get familiar with us because a team you follow has it”. Like in Chicago, my hometown, where I grew up, Cubs partnered with DraftKings. They’re gonna have a big lounge there. Which is pretty cool, I think it’s kinda fun to hang out in an upscale lounge like that, what you get.
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love that piece of, of the industry, that, you know, the local, um, you know, lounges and bar betting, and like that type of mentality, that like, now we’re gonna be able to do in some of these states. I didn’t know that you’re from Chicago. I’m a, originally from that area as well.
Yeah, I grew up, uh, Edison Park, kinda Park Ridge area. My mom was a teacher, so we had to live in the city, I don’t know if you know how that tax deal goes, but I went to Gordon Tech High School and then DePaul for a little bit.
Cool, cool. Escaped Illinois for California, right?
[Laughs]. I love the people…
That’s what I always say. I escaped Illinois for Florida.
I love the people. When they bubbke it, I’ll go back.
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Well, Jeffrey, this has been awesome. I don’t want to keep you much longer, but give us some, first of all, how would somebody be a part of the ETF iBet if they would like to? Do they contact you, is there a, what’s that process look like to be a part of it?
Well, iBet, you know, if you’re on eTrade or any of these companies, TD, AmeriTrade, it’s listed on your exchange, so you can go look it up, it’s just iBet, like it sounds, and, um, you can also look me up, Jeffrey Kamys, on Google or InherentWealthFund, or iBet the Fund, and you’ll taken to a fund page and it’ll show you how to invest. But, uh, yeah, it’s great. I really appreciate, you know, you for having me on. You have a great show, I’ve watched it a few times now, and I think you really bring a lot of information to the space.
Cool, I appreciate that. I appreciate the cheap plug there at the end. We’ll make sure we put those links to iBet out there, we’ll gather some of those and we’ll make sure we get them in there, and that way people can get out there. Heck, I may have to invest in the fund as well. I love to be a part of the investing, but I don’t really like, I don’t know, I don’t really know what I’m doing. And I think that’s, uh, that’s a common thing for a lot of people, I think. Maybe I’m making that generalization, but I don’t really know what I’m doing in the financial world, right?
Well, and I think why this is kind of a neat thing for people who are in betting and like to wager, this is what you’re doing.
You know, if you want to call it, like, a hedge for your own betting, like if the companies do well and you lose money, it’s like a natural hedge. I don’t know.
Well, I know one thing’s for certain. We know that the industry’s not going away, the industry has a lot of momentum now, we think, but like, we still have a good 5, 10, 15, a lot of time here for this industry to continue to grow and catapult, especially in the United States, you know, I’m only referring to the United States. If you look at where Europe is with sports betting, I mean the United States is still so far behind, and there’s just a lot that’s gonna happen. So I think we all believe the industry is not going away, so you’re not necessarily, you know, betting on the industry going away.
Well, totally, and I know you’re kinda wrapping, but let me tell you one thing that I’ve seen that’s very much like fantasy sports. So when I was in fantasy sports, we were in it before ESPN was doing it, before Sports Illustrated was talking about it, before any of these large media networks like Fox, they weren’t talking about it at all. You know, USA Today had one guy, he wrote, was a pretty good guy who wrote, but no one was really doing it. And then when it became acceptable, it became the thing, and then the NFL was involved, and Major League Baseball, but none of those sites, when I started my company, they were still 5 years away from doing it. It’s very similar. So now, you see, you know, Bob Chapek from Disney starting to talk about it, and more than likely, I saw you had a post today, they’re gonna probably be a partnership. They have to partner initially. It makes the most sense if one of the big players, whether it’s FanDuel, or somebody like DraftKings, or something like that, a partnership seems to make the most sense for them, but, you know, you’ll see the other companies kinda wait on the sidelines, getting ready for the mass approval, and then they’ll come in, and that’s probably what Disney’s gotta feel that out.
Absolutely. Well, Jeffrey, this was a pleasure. I really appreciate you taking the time. Any last words, anything we missed, anything you wanted to cover or say before I let you go here?
No, it’s great. I would just say, it’s week 2 in the NFL now, so whatever you saw last week, you can throw it out the window, because that’s how the NFL is. And I had a average week. I think I was 2 and 3 this week. I did pick up the first and I picked up the last, but tough week. It’s gonna be all different. So, just stay flexible, cause the thing is, is really, I look at the NFL like, we call it, like, um, where you’re like, [inaudible]. You watch the lines. Sometimes a team is too hot, and they become like, overbought. They used to play like, if a team went 1-4 in a row, like, they covered 4 ATS in a row, you’d look and you’d think that’d be a bet against, like an automatic bet against. Because the spread starts building to a certain level. So I always look for those little indicators of either overbought or oversold. Like when a team’s, you know, lost 3 or 4 in a row, but they may be a good team, and they’ll cover. Somebody maybe like Detroit last year, who covered a lot more than you’d think because they were in close games or something like that. But, you know, it’s really fun. Throw everything out you saw last week, it’ll be all different this week. [Laughs].
Yes it will. It’s sports. That’s what sports does to us, right?
Yeah. It’s fun.
Awesome. Well, Jeffrey, really appreciate it, and I look forward to the day we can have you back on, when California becomes legal, we’re gonna have you on to celebrate, and then talk.
We’ll be popping the champagne.
Absolutely. Take care, my friend. I appreciate it, and good luck with everything.
You too.
Alright. That was Jeffrey Kamys, Inherent Wealth Fund at iBet ETF. Super excited, gonna check that out personally, to be honest with you. I think it’s something that I’m definitely gonna take a close look at. I really like what he’s doing there. If you believe in the industry, if you’re interest in investing in it, definitely take a look at that ETF. Um, seems like a very knowledgeable guy, that was the first time I’ve actually spoken with Jeffrey in person, so I’m excited to do that again. I love talking to people that love the industry as much as I do and that really know the industry as well. And I think you could tell from that conversation, he definitely knows the industry. So, thank you all for tuning in, really appreciate it. We’ll put all the links in the show notes. Um, as we mentioned there at the end, if you are betting, it is week 2. Don’t get depressed if you had a terrible week 1, I know there’s a lot of new bettors out there, there’s a lot of people that maybe are excited about betting, like “Oh, NFL, I’m gonna bet, bet, bet, bet” and then they lose, lose, lose, lose. Don’t, don’t be that bettor that now goes into week 2 and is like, oh, all or nothing, and puts everything in on one team, and then it’s like, ah, I’m done betting, right? Don’t be that. You wanna go, you wanna enjoy it, you wanna spread out your bets, and guess what? It’s gonna be a different week, we’re all gonna have a better week. Uh, it’s sports. You’re here to enjoy it, and, uh, hopefully you do. So, thank you all for everything. Thank you for the attention, I’m Ryan Knuppel, @Knup out on all the social medias. Until next time, stay safe, and take care. Bye-bye.
Knup Sports Show - 180 - Jeffrey Kamys of Inherent Wealth Fund on the Knup Sports Show (square)
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